Rebel with a Purpose with Prarthana Chandani

Prarthana: Why are you travelling like a tourist when you can travel like a global citizen? I am Prarthana, and you're listening to Rebel with a Purpose. Today's episode, I have invited Freeman, one of my dearest friends from Mindvalley, where I met him for the second time in person this year in Amsterdam. He has created a movement, a global movement called Travel to Transform. In this movement, he explains how you can travel more consciously and transform the human being that you are becoming in the process, using travel as your leverage. I am so, so excited to get him on this episode. Let's get started, shall we?

Prarthana: Hi Freeman. How are you doing?

Freeman: I'm doing awesome. Yourself?

Prarthana: I'm doing really good too. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to have you on this episode.

Freeman: Thanks for having me today.

Prarthana: So I want to ask you the first question. Can you tell us more about you, your story, in whatever way you want to explain it?

Freeman: Yeah. And to be relevant to your audience today, we were speaking about our multiple identities. In fact, for the audience's context, we finally met in person earlier this year in Amsterdam at the Mindvalley University event. I think we had such a beautiful conversation, because in all these parties and networking events we always kick off by trying to introduce ourselves, giving a business card, that kind of context. But what we shared is actually very valuable, because we didn't need that. We kind of saw each other as who we are.

Freeman: And the way that I introduce myself is: I'm here to enjoy life. I'm here to enjoy life. I'm multi-passionate. I'm the founder of a movement called Travel to Transform, also a mindset coach. I'm a keynote speaker — I've spoken on TEDx and at Mindvalley as well — and also a certified coach, helping a lot of high performers find their deep purpose and express their full authenticity in the world, making the positive changes to make the world a better place. So there are many different ways to introduce ourselves, but what I found really, really interesting is that sometimes we try to limit ourselves by a title, by occupation. I'm one of those people, similar to you, who wants to redefine that. So I think that will be the intro to go into the conversation.

Prarthana: That's awesome. That's awesome. I love that you said "I'm here to enjoy life" and you're not going to put yourself into a title. You have so many different things, like you said — a keynote speaker, certified coach — and you have your own movement called Travel to Transform, right? Can you tell me more about Travel to Transform? What is that all about?

Freeman: Yeah, so this is an interesting path. If you were to ask me whether I would see myself where I am now, just two or three years ago, it never would have been in the same place. Because three years ago I was actually still in a full-time job. I was still in a corporate role. Throughout my life — I was born and raised in Hong Kong, and I was one of those struggling Asian kids who grew up living in my parents' expectations, in the traditional pathway. Climb the ladder, get the job, get a promotion, get a house, get a car, get a spouse. The one-way linear ladder to climb. But I was suffering with depression through that, because I found no joy in it.

Freeman: One thing that really changed my life was when I was 19 years old, when I went solo travelling. The first time I left Hong Kong was actually going to Romania in Eastern Europe. So I got to explore a whole different place outside my day-to-day bubble. Since that point, I knew there's so much in the world that I really, really, really want to explore. And hence I decided, you know what, screw it, I'm going to leave Hong Kong. I found a way to study abroad and then find a job, creating a life in the Western world as an Asian guy. So that was around over 13 years ago now.

Freeman: And travel does change us. This is also something we spoke about when we were in Amsterdam together — that when we live abroad, when we become independent, when we go outside our day-to-day bubble and are not living in other people's expectations anymore, we start to reconnect with our deeper self. We start to find out who we are, what we truly love, what our preferences are. So that was the turning point, as I started living overseas. Since then I got to travel the world, working for a multinational company for over eight years. I've been living in London, in Singapore, and then on the road, where I travelled for 14 months straight living in hotels. Now I'm residing in Australia as well, where I moved to Sydney in December 2019, and recently I got my citizenship here, which is my third passport. So that's the journey of how travel really transformed me. It really changed me as a person, for the better.

Freeman: Now the funny thing is, how does this come to all this coaching, and why did we even cross over at Mindvalley? So around December 2019 I moved to Sydney, Australia. At that time it was the Australian bushfires first — and for the audience, if you don't know, the Australian bushfires were a really devastating event where the whole bush just burned down. It was an orange sky and yellow smoke. It was really, really bad with the air quality and everything. So I moved there and experienced not the blue sky, not the kangaroos jumping, the kind of expectation of Australia, but the other way around. Then I went into COVID lockdown right away.

Freeman: That was a time where my mind, body and spirit really shattered, because I went to this rock bottom where I had lost most of my savings in just a week because of the stock market. Emotionally I was still attached to a British lady I was dating back in Hong Kong, but I had moved to Sydney, so it was done. And my health was also down the drain, because I was suffering with severe insomnia and also chronic fatigue syndrome, which meant I was just so tired and fatigued all the time, and no Western doctor could help me. So in 2020, when that rock bottom happened, there was a time where I finally realised: oh, my whole life I've been travelling all around the world, not facing what is inside. I was actually escaping.

Freeman: And when I finally did what I teach now as travelling inwards — which is very similar to what you do, helping entrepreneurs and soulful leaders find their deeper purpose, to reconnect with the energetic side of themselves, the emotional aspect of themselves — then we got to transform. So that was the deeper layer of me finally reconnecting with myself during lockdown, and at the same time finally realising I'd been trying to escape, using external travel. Even though it looked all amazing on social media — I'm one of those guys, quote unquote, who made it, because I got paid to travel the world when I was very young — I wasn't truly fulfilled or feeling happy on the inside.

Freeman: So Travel to Transform finally came to a place, because yes, there's a beautiful outside world where you get to explore, but at the same time there's also this incredible inner world, to travel to the depths of our mind, body and spirit. When these two circles, when these two worlds collide and overlap, that's what I call Travel to Transform: your personal transformation coming from travel. And the more consciously aware we get, the more we develop the skills — which are totally learnable to everybody — the more we become extraordinary in our life, in every category of our life. So that's the basis of the Travel to Transform message.

Prarthana: That's awesome. I'm still so curious. When you say Travel to Transform, I love to hear the story of where it originated from. But when it comes to me travelling — because I'm going to Bali soon — how can I inculcate a bit? Can you teach me something from your framework that I can inculcate, to travel more consciously and work on my transformation? Let's just use this as an example.

Freeman: Yeah, absolutely. I love that there's a practical integration of it. And I absolutely love this part, especially given our conversation offline where we spoke a lot about how the personal growth and coaching industry works. For the audience, I'm sure if you're listening to this you have very likely invested in yourself before. You have invested in yourself in programmes, maybe a mastermind, high-level coaching. No matter what it is, there's a certain investment we have made in ourselves so that we become a better version of ourselves.

Freeman: And here's the incredible thing. Other than learning from others, if we surrender to our travel experience, travel and the world itself is the greatest teacher. That's why, even being a certified coach with Mindvalley as a mindset coach, as a transformational coach, I love going on a deep dive with people into reconnecting with themselves and their purpose — but at the same time, what if we can also allow ourselves to let that travel experience, when we travel with intention, become the catalyst to become who we are, who we want to become? So in order to do that there are frameworks, for sure, and we can dive deep into it so that the audience can also apply it to themselves. But my first question, actually going back to you, is: why Bali? What's the why behind this trip? And we can start from there.

Prarthana: Yeah, I think I fell in love with Uluwatu. I fell in love with Uluwatu when I was there last year. I've been to Bali last year too, travelled a lot solo and met a lot of — I don't know — interesting people. I've never met such interesting people anywhere else. I also think solo travelling allows you to open yourself up to meeting interesting people. So the fact that I had two solo trips back to back to Bali — in 2023, once I graduated, I gifted myself a surf trip to Bali, and in 2024 I went back because a friend of mine couldn't make it last minute, so I went back solo.

Prarthana: And then I went to Uluwatu in the last three days and I fell in love. I cannot explain what I felt. Everyone has asked me why Uluwatu in particular. I don't know, because it is a slower-paced life and I like that. But more than anything, it was just the freedom I felt living there. It felt like I was meant to be there, and it felt like I was meant to be there for longer, but then I had to come back to India. So I came back to India and I promised myself I'm going to go back for much longer. And so that's why.

Freeman: Amazing. Wow. I think that's a really great start, and for the audience, I'm sure you resonate as well — if there are destinations, particular countries or locations or cities, that really draw you. The deep why actually expresses itself just like how you explained it. It's like the first time you feel almost as though there's magic, there's this deeper calling of this place, and now you want to go back for a longer period of time. That may be building more of your business there, and networking, and also just feeling the magic of this place. In Bali, that's all going to integrate together.

Freeman: And that's why I was saying Travel to Transform is actually utilising this movement, this shift of geography, this shift of energetics of the location. Because if you think about it, when we live in our day-to-day — and for the audience, you can think about how we are living in a bubble. This bubble is not just a metaphorical bubble, it's literally an energetic bubble, because the location, no matter whether you are based in India or, like me, in Australia, has a certain energy and vibe that's different. That's why, when you are in a huge big city, maybe Singapore or London, this kind of huge metropolis, versus when you just go to the suburbs, you immediately feel the difference. You feel it. And a lot of people just say, oh yeah, because it's more quiet, this and that. That's only the physical side of it.

Freeman: The real understanding, and why this is relevant to Travel to Transform for many of the audience here, who I believe are very consciously developed and also spiritually developed — so let's use those languages and vocabulary to help you integrate this. When you understand that when we are shifting location and geographically moving from one place to another place, what is happening is actually that we are recoding ourselves. If you imagine we are based on an energetic blueprint — everyone has a different blueprint, we have a different soul blueprint per se, which expresses through a different authenticity, and that's why it's unique, and there's a coding behind it. It's almost like a computer: there's an operating system, there's a programme inside it.

Freeman: And when we shift, when we travel, when we move to another place, the environment itself has a very different coding. Because we're living there, drinking the water there, we're meeting different people. The locals are different. The local restaurants, how we order from a menu — everything shifts. The coding that we're experiencing is completely different from where we were in our home country. That's why, when you become very intentional about the location and what we are about to unlock there, and also integrate it into what we are creating and building, that's actually a fast track to creating faster success.

Freeman: Because in Travel to Transform, what we are actually very interested in is not just success, but faster success — because how we are building in the modern world today is completely different. How people are building their business, or a freelancing career, or remote work, is completely different. Now we have AI tools, we have Zoom calls like this, we can do podcast interviews across the world. All this technology speeds up and catalyses the way we're building.

Freeman: So to help the audience really apply this, the first thing to understand is that there's actually a road map. There's a road map when you are travelling, and how much you can get out of that destination, and how much you can transform from that destination, totally depends on your level of consciousness there. So I'm sure you're pretty familiar with the map of consciousness. I assume you and your audience here — I assume in your coaching container you also use some of those maps as well.

Prarthana: Yeah, I do.

Freeman: Yeah, like Dr David Hawkins with the emotional spectrum. So anger and all this negative emotion is at a lower spectrum, and then you move to neutral, where it's more peaceful, and then we move to love and joy, which are higher frequency, and then enlightenment and authenticity. So that's one form of the map of consciousness. There's also another form — let's use Mindvalley as an example, because we both met at the event there. And again, for the audience, if you have never heard of Mindvalley, Mindvalley is the world's biggest personal growth platform, where I'm actually not just a certified hypnotherapist and mindset coach, but I've also been serving as a community builder for Australia there for the last four or five years now.

Freeman: And let's use the Mindvalley model from Vishen, the founder. He has this book called The Code of the Extraordinary Mind. In his spectrum, he spoke about how we live from being in a Culturescape — which means the landscape of the culture, which is why we are conditioned by how we grew up, our local culture — to breaking out, to recoding yourself to become extraordinary. So that's another map. And then there's also Michael Beckwith as well, for the spiritually very in-tune, for those who love New Thought teachers as well, from Hay House. And what he speaks about is that life is actually first happening to you. So life is happening to you, moving to life is happening by you, to life is happening through you, to life is happening as you. The four stages of spiritual development, as you call it. So this is another map of consciousness.

Freeman: Now, why do we talk about this? There are so many different maps, and the reason is because most people, when they travel, they don't realise there's also a map, a consciousness map, that they can use. That's why in Travel to Transform, one of the very foundational things we teach in our community is to actually understand this modern map of consciousness, what we call the Four Stages of Travellers. And it will make a lot of sense to you, because I think you have already transformed to quite a higher conscious level, without maybe having the same vocabulary as I'm speaking, to condense and to conceptualise it.

Freeman: But most people, if you think about it, they travel to start with this consciousness as a tourist. So they travel as a tourist, the tourist consciousness, which is where most of the time they are actually being reactive. These are people who say: screw the airline, why did they delay my flight; screw the government, why didn't they approve my visa; the local restaurant sucks, I'm going to give them one star on a Google review. So most people kind of start there, because that's how we experience going out to a new country. But there's so much more than just being at this level, because for tourists, they travel to escape. Their motivational drive is actually to escape.

Freeman: But once we go above and transcend this layer, then we go from reactive to proactive. So now we go to the traveller consciousness, and the next level after being a tourist is actually becoming an explorer. An explorer is a discovery, where travel becomes the learning and the growth tool. And this sounds very similar to when you first went to Bali. It might be that phase where you start exploring this new place, you start learning about the new culture, you start learning that wow, there's something behind here that I'm learning, that I'm experiencing, that I just enjoy so much. And through that you get to explore more about yourself, because being an explorer means you get to learn both about the world and also about yourself.

Freeman: This is where, from a consciousness perspective, from a mindset operating system perspective, explorers are willful. This is like, where there is a will, there is a way. They shift from life is happening to me, to life is happening by me. So now I'm creating my life, I have responsibility to create a better life myself. But the thing is, when it comes to being willful, life is not about working hard, it's about working smart. There's only so much we can push through. And I'm sure in your coaching container, or even in my clients' cases, sometimes this is where people burn out, because all these entrepreneurs, or full-time corporate people, work, work, work so hard, because they have this willful energy to push through, to build more, to do more. But we are not human doings, we're human beings.

Freeman: So the next level, to go from explorer to the next level, is to move from willful to intellectual. To work smart. And now we start installing new smart systems. We shift the system of living and change our model of reality as a whole. So now we go from being an explorer to becoming an adventurer. An adventurer is a traveller who will start crafting their own unique adventure. So rather than following a group tour and doing all these package deals, you start actually opening up yourself. I'm going to Bali and I have this intention, or I know my why, but I'm going to be spontaneous a bit as well when I'm there, to see what magic comes through. But this is my adventure. I'm not following any other people's path, I'm not trying to follow a guidebook to just do all the best things to do in Bali.

Freeman: So if that's still making sense so far, these are the three levels of travellers. And now, to go through to the final, the last level of consciousness of how we can travel to transform and get the most out of any travel trip — drum roll — is to go from being an adventurer to global citizen. And what a global citizen means is we become this globalised individual, a higher-calibre individual, where we get to respect and be open-minded to all kinds of culture. As a global citizen, travel now becomes a lifestyle. It becomes who you truly are.

Freeman: And Travel to Transform simply means you are unleashing both your own transformation and also the transformation of the people around you when you're on your trip, that you get to touch, and also the business and the work that you are building in your career — the transformation of positive impact. You get to touch people as well. And this is where it's interesting, and possibly relevant to your audience the most, because this level up is that from a mindset perspective we actually go from intellectual to intuitive. And this is where it gets interesting, because as soulful entrepreneurs, life is not just only about this three-pound brain here, where we can craft the strategy. It's not only about what's tactical, what sales we can implement, but it's actually about listening to the deeper intuition, the bigger creativity that is bigger than us, to connect with this universal wifi per se — may that be that you believe in God, or the universe, or karma, or your higher self, or whatever belief system you allow. We are actually connected to something bigger than us. And that's why, living in global citizen consciousness, when you travel to Bali you get to unlock, intuitively, the magic behind it.

Prarthana: That's lovely. Thank you so much for sharing those four stages. Those are amazing. I want to ask you a question. How do you tap into your intuition and into your conscious awareness while travelling? Can you give me an example of a travel experience where you had an intuitive hit, and how did you tap into it?

Freeman: Yeah, that's a great question, and there are so many layers to this. Because again, the audience — I'm sure if you're listening to this, you're somebody who would meditate. I'm sure you have some kind of spiritual practice, that you may even be doing your best to integrate into your business practices. Because there's so much more than just writing this marketing plan, showing up on media and creating content. There's actually so much more about: what is it that the highest version of me already knows, and I can connect to that, so that I can receive the data that is more than me right now?

Freeman: Now, the reason why I say there are a couple of layers is because it gets interesting when you're travelling. Because when we are travelling there's no routine, as there is when we are sitting at home, where we can maybe start the day with beautiful breathwork or yoga, or a certain spiritual practice you have. Because, oh, I have to catch a flight tomorrow. And then the next thing you know, you're checking into the hotel. The next thing you know, you're hanging out with friends. So the first layer, the first layer of the matrix per se, when we're travelling, that we want to make sure we are integrating, is to actually put our routine into the itinerary itself.

Freeman: A lot of people actually do it the other way around, because they feel like they're time poor — which again is actually the tourist consciousness. When I'm in a place where I'm spending maybe one month in Bali, 30 days, and then now I start to count down, that's actually what tourists do, because they are always in this scarcity mindset. They run on this survival mode: I only have 30 days. But if you switch yourself to abundance, which is more the global citizen mindset — that I am here to receive, in these 30 days, everything I'm meant to receive, and that's it. And if I need to come back to Bali, I will. If I'm going to meet the most epic people, I will. If I'm meant to make connections, to open up my synchronistic collaborations, maybe my new business partner or romantic partner — if you open up yourself to that, boom, it reflects.

Freeman: So the second layer of this matrix, if you were to open up yourself, is to understand that everything you experience on your trip is actually a mirror. And what that means is, if you get to see the external, every single local experience — including trying out something like a Balinese fruit, an Indonesian fruit you have never tried before — that experience is actually a reflection, a mirror, of how much you have done in your deep inner work inside.

Freeman: This is a story I really, really love, which can articulate this even better than I try to teach it. There are frameworks, sure, but let's go with stories as well. This is the parable of the two travellers. Once upon a time, there was the first traveller. He was walking down the valley, and he met this farmer in the field, and he asked the farmer: hey, I just came from this village and I'm heading to the next one. Do you know how are those people? Are those people nice people, or how are those people like? And the farmer asked the person back: oh, how were the people in your last village? And the first person said: oh, they're very nice, they are such hospitable people, they're so good, I actually didn't want to leave. And then the farmer replied: ah, then you're going to find the next village the same.

Freeman: And then here comes the second traveller, also travelling down the same valley. And then he saw the farmer. So the second traveller also asked the farmer: hey, do you know how the people in the next village are like? I just came from the last one. And the farmer asked him back the same question: oh, so how were the last village's people like? And then the person started complaining: wow, all those people were so nasty, they tried to scam me, I was so scared, I was staying in the hotel and blah blah blah. And the farmer replied: ah, you're going to find the next village the same.

Prarthana: Mhm.

Freeman: And this is one of my favourite stories when it comes to travelling, because it's literally how we experience our travel trip and reality. Not just the way we interact with people, but actually the whole experience — the whole experience of how we conceptualise this trip, this journey. How much of the experience is actually relevant to my own life, how I can use those experiences to elevate my life, to create an upgrade, to create a reprogramming for the better inside me, so that I can create a new external reality by using this mirror reflection. So that's the second layer. If the audience, if you're listening, if you can see with this new consciousness, to see that everything you experience is actually a mirror to reflect who you are, you're going to experience this whole trip with a different level of mind.

Prarthana: That's so beautiful. That brought so much value, to the fact that I'm leaving in a few weeks and I'm so much more conscious and aware of my intention and the mindset with which I'm even going. Thank you for sharing that story. That was amazing. And I want to ask you, as my next question: how do you now, in your day-to-day life, consciously travel around? Because I know you are a speaker, I know you're also a coach, and I know you're so multi-passionate. You have so much to your personality. How do you hold all of this while your personal life is also moving so much in terms of travelling?

Freeman: Yeah, and that's an amazing, amazing question. I think this is where most people in our modern world, especially coaches and healers and all the entrepreneurs, actually struggle. Because when we grew up, including my younger self, we were taught travel is an additional activity that adds on to whatever we are doing, and outside the spectrum of what we are doing. So if we are working, then travelling is like an add-on after we work.

Prarthana: Right, that's separation.

Freeman: If you think about it, that's literally how we have been creating separation. That there's a travel life out there, and a real day-to-day life that I'm living right now. So the core of the work in Travel to Transform, for the very high-level conscious travellers here, is to actually integrate both. And what that means is you embody this level of consciousness that there is no more separation between your travel and your day-to-day.

Prarthana: Mhm.

Freeman: And now your journey becomes a lifestyle. And obviously I've been travelling for over 13 years now. I've been around the world to over 35 countries. I've lived in so many places. I've got my third passport. But I didn't start from there. It's actually taking the next step, where you get to expand your level of awareness right now, so that every trip you get to integrate a little bit more than last time.

Freeman: So here's a very practical and useful tool for all the listeners listening, and this works for any level of consciousness. No matter whether you are just starting out as a tourist going into explorer, or whether you're already an explorer or adventurer, or even a global citizen, it's the same. This is something I love when I'm creating a lot of travel content, because I'm sure you have experienced or heard of this thing called post-trip blues. Like, ah, after the trip I just go back, I'm on my flight, I'm already thinking about emails, thinking about all this work and responsibility. And that's not a pleasant feeling, because it almost feels like, ah, I need to go back to this reality.

Freeman: But what if I tell you — what if I tell you, the listener — there's no such thing in this world actually called post-trip blues. It's actually a trap. It's actually a mindset trap. The reason for that is because when we create a separation, that there's a travel life versus a day-to-day life, then when we are on that plane coming back, of course we feel like that's, quote unquote, a reality we have to come back to face. But what if you see that return, the journey of returning — if you know about the hero's journey as well — the hero goes out there to slay the dragon and he comes back. He always comes back to return with the gift to share with people. That's the elixir. And if you can see yourself actually like that hero, then there's no ending to any trip anymore, because you are simply returning to a home location, but integrated with a completely different identity inside you.

Freeman: So when you are on that flight home, when you're at the airport, this is where most people make the mistake, including my younger self — that we try to check emails and stuff. We try to look at the messages. We try to look at the camera roll. Oh, I wish I could stay in that temple more, and longer. I wish I had done this. And we already start having this energy of regret. And that's the mistake where, as tourists, society has conditioned us to do that. Because once the matrix creates this separation, now all I'm thinking about is actually going for my next trip, when I'm working my day-to-day.

Freeman: So what if, when we bring this into embodiment, to integrate these two realities into unity, that right now, no matter whether I am home in the home location or not, or whether I'm working, doing a keynote, or whether I'm delivering or facilitating a workshop, or whether I'm attending a retreat or a personal growth event, or whether I'm overseas simply to visit my friends and family — if you get to see every single trip as a catalyst of helping you to become who you are becoming, the highest version of you, the next version of you that you have been unleashing, and use travel as a tool to fast track that, boom, you will never have post-trip blues again. Because every single trip, you realise I'm returning and I have another journey waiting for me. And that's how integration starts.

Freeman: And this is the same for me as well. Again, this is a fast track. I've been going through this trial and error for over 13 years, experiencing so much depression and so many post-trip blues. For the listener, you don't have to go through that trial and error. It's simply about bringing both your travel life and your day-to-day life into one, by building clarity of how they are actually overlapping. What that sweet spot actually looks like for you. What that Travel to Transform version means to you, because everyone is different. The way I travel, where I do keynotes, attend Mindvalley events, may not be the same for you, because you may love couch surfing. You may love cycling across the continent. You may love actually going on a cruise, you don't like flying. You might love Bali. You may love Chiang Mai, all these more quiet places. But there are people who love Da Nang, Vietnam, some of these more building-vibe places with more infrastructure. There are so many destinations. At the end, it's about bringing clarity of why you even choose that destination, and how that place can elevate every single area of your life.

Prarthana: Wow. I love this. I love that there's so much intentionality behind what you do, and when you say why choose that place, how does that overlap your current life, and how can you integrate it rather than feel like it's separate? I love that. I love everything you said. Everything has just landed. And I want to ask you: how do you integrate routine into travelling? How do you integrate your current life into travelling?

Freeman: So it works both ways, and I can answer it in two layers. I think the easiest way to look at it is: how can we integrate the routine into the travel itself, and how can we integrate that travel experience into our day-to-day routine? So for the sake of integration, let's put it simply in this way. As I was saying earlier, the biggest challenge sometimes when we're on a trip is that shift of physicality outside, because of the scheduled movement. Because there might be certain tours, there might be a ferry you need to catch, and it actually puts you out of your own routine.

Freeman: That's why, when we plan the trip, for conscious travellers, we want to intentionally craft our dates to also add the routine back, including self-love rituals, if the listener has one. And I do believe your listeners often have a routine, as you teach them to reconnect with themselves. For the reason being, if we don't plan ahead on putting this space in, or crafting this space in the itinerary itself, to be a non-negotiable space, then it's going to be gone for sure. Because as we were saying earlier, we are actually putting ourselves into a completely different energetic coding environment. In Bali, the pace might be slower than in a big city, or maybe than in India. And if that's the case, then there's an advantage for you to actually slow down, to go back to that routine, because everything, the pace, is slower.

Freeman: But last time when you and I met, we were in Amsterdam. And if we recall, when we went out to party, when we went out from that conference centre, the whole main street, the whole canal — yeah, that's right, the whole canal — is full of tourists. Everything is rushing somewhere, there's so much noise, people shouting, there are shows here. From that perspective, of course, it's more difficult to craft space. And that's why it's very intentional. Even when I was on that trip, me and my sister, when we're travelling, we do want to find space to ensure we have time to do our breathwork, to get the sunlight we want, to do some of the biohacking stuff, to ensure our nervous system is feeling peaceful, to feel slowed down rather than being dragged away. So that's a very intentional craft again.

Freeman: And I have a full programme, the Travel Mastery Blueprint™, to get deeper into the physical side of it, because we also incorporate Shaolin martial art philosophy into how we can play this yin and yang. Because at the end, you can't fight it, if you get what I mean, because you are there to enjoy the trip. So in Shaolin martial art — a very quick sharing — a lot of people thought Shaolin is about martial art fighting, but it's actually about the yin and yang, it's about the harmony. In Shaolin martial art we actually learn to become the animal form. We mimic the monkey, we make a tiger, the tiger fist. And the reason for that is because we are embodying the different harmony of nature's force inside ourselves.

Freeman: So if you can use this perspective to look at how you can work with your travel — when you put that routine in, you want to create harmony on your trip, throughout your trip, so that you're always optimised. So that you are enjoying that travel journey so much more, with a higher level of consciousness, with better emotional resilience, with much better connections, because you have the capacity to do so. So that is the first part of it, when it comes to incorporating this routine into travel. It's very intentional and mindful.

Freeman: Now the second part of it is how we can actually bring that travel experience back to the day-to-day, let's say when we are in the hometown. And for the listener, this is actually what I call the reverse culture shock. When we go on a journey, when we go to some exotic country we have never been to before, we have this thing called culture shock. It's like, wow, those people just eat with their hands. Or maybe for you, or maybe for your audience, it's not a big thing, because I was one of those naive Asian kids. When I went to India for the first time, and also China, and also Kerala — beautiful, you know, God's own country, the backwaters — and the locals are so friendly. I went to the slum as well, when I was in Mumbai, and I didn't join a tour, I actually went there with my friends, walked in, because I wanted to have that authentic experience.

Freeman: And maybe for me, if you are in this part of the world, it might feel different, but when you go to a completely different place, maybe the Western world for you, the other way around, there is something as culture shock. And culture shock is actually beautiful, because it shocks us out of our day-to-day bubble. It's actually a space where we get to use that shock to rethink what we have always been conditioned to believe is true, but it's only a partial truth. And that's why culture shock has value.

Freeman: Now, to answer that question, what we want to understand is that after the travel, most of the time we have this reverse culture shock, when we are back in our home country, during our integration period, in our integration phase. Especially when we go back, then our families and relatives will ask, oh, where have you been, and welcome back to reality. Now these are all the work waiting for you. Okay, this is the long list of things you need to do. Now, the interesting thing, if you think about this part of the integration of reverse culture shock, is to actually bring the person that you have become differently on the trip back to your home country.

Freeman: A lot of the time — I'm sure you have friends as well, you have one of those friends who travels a lot, and for the listener, I'm sure if you have travelled before, travel companions — when you go back to the home country there's only two things that happen. First is those people go back to the machine, operating in the exact same way, doing the same thing again and again, like that trip is a distant movie.

Freeman: And that's actually how most people, again as tourist consciousness, operate, which is very frightening. And that's why I'm very passionate about Travel to Transform, because what if the whole world, we have global citizens instead of tourists? The whole world is going to become a better place, because we all become open-minded to different cultures, we all become people who genuinely are authentic, expressing ourselves. So if you think about it that way, then the second type of person, rather than falling back to the same day-to-day, doing the same thing, the second type of person is actually bringing who they were on the trip back to their home country.

Freeman: And this is where you're going to trigger a lot of the people around you. And this is where the real test comes through. Because if you can stay true to those expressions that you have picked up and recoded during your travel, and coming from a place of love and compassion, and share that with your friends — because you just share with them, I've been to this amazing place called Bali and I've learned this thing called tantra, and I have this amazing experience where I feel, from being always non-stop and feeling restless, to finding peace in me — and if you can just share that, without thinking ah, they won't understand me, that is the real shift of integration.

Prarthana: That's the non-judgmental practice of it, yeah.

Prarthana: Yeah, when you said that, a memory just popped up in my mind of the past, when I have felt this way, where I came back from a trip. I was sharing, but I just knew, I just felt like they won't understand, because they haven't gone through that experience. They won't understand, so why would I share? And I stopped myself from sharing this new identity, because I was just like, they won't understand, because they don't have the same experience. So when you said that, I just went back to that memory in the past where I was at this coffee shop with my friend, when we were talking about it. But it's so beautiful when you say bring back that identity and share it without judging yourself. Because when we fear other people judging us, it's actually when we're judging ourselves, or maybe I'm too different from them, so we don't share it. But yeah, now that you see it, a part of me kind of judged myself, and that's why I didn't share it, because I thought they would judge me, and I thought it was too different or too much. So I didn't share it. And now when you speak about bringing this identity back to your hometown, and owning this new identity with your pre-existing old relationships, and triggering people, and that's okay — but seeing who would stay and who would be inspired by you and this growing evolution that you are, is just a beautiful journey.

Freeman: Yeah, and beautifully said. I think what you shared with vulnerability there is actually very powerful, and I think a listener can totally feel it, like me as well, because it happens to all of us. Like when we're in a coffee shop, even with our best friend, sometimes it feels very daunting to share the experience, because we feel like they don't understand, and we don't want to feel like we're showing off. Oh, we have this amazing trip we just went on. And I think you went to the States, right, to the Living Brave conference as well. I'm sure you were surrounded with amazing women as well, very powerful women, and sometimes it's difficult to actually conceptualise that experience.

Prarthana: Yeah.

Freeman: And for all the audience, if you're listening, what you can do is actually to share with an open heart and use the language that would be able to speak to them. The funny thing is, when I first started this practice, when I first integrated, it's the same. Because when I was travelling around over 10 years ago — mentioned earlier in my childhood journey — when solo travelling, and I started studying abroad, and when I came back, somehow I felt like when I spoke to my best friends they won't understand, because I felt like there's a gap. I have experienced something different. I don't want to show off, because they didn't get the same opportunity.

Freeman: But here's the thing: they actually love it, because they want to be happy for you. And in fact, if your best friend, after listening to your experience, is not happy for you, you may want to re-evaluate the people around you, who we are surrounding ourselves with. Because if we share our experience from a place of love, not from a place of ego, from a place of non-judgmental sharing — it's like, I had this experience in Bali and I learned this and I want to go back because I feel like it's very valuable — I'm sure your friends, your best friend, would say I support you, do it, because they want to see you become a better version.

Freeman: And I think that's what's missing in our world sometimes when it comes to travel. Because again, society conditions us to travel with a tourist mentality, and that's why when we go back we feel like if we share, it's only a tourist consciousness. But if we see ourselves as a global citizen, as a global-minded individual, then that experience that you get to receive on this trip is so miraculous. It's actually so beautiful that it's meant for the other person to really listen to it.

Freeman: As one of my mentors, a speaking coach and speaker trainer, often says: your story is not about you. She always says your life is not about you. Your life story is never about you. It's about the life of every single person you touch. And it's very powerful, because it's really about all the lives we get to touch. The story belongs to them, because somewhere, some place, there will be exactly a person who actually wants to travel, who wants to become a better version of themselves, but they haven't got the same results like you and I at that stage of their life. And your story actually gets to transform them, to give them the inspiration, to give them what exactly they needed to set forth their vision, to really go out into the world to become a better version of themselves. And that's why this integration itself, I do believe, as crazy as it sounds, as big as it sounds, is one of the ways we make the world a better place. Because we are all here to share stories. We are all here to share lessons. We are all here to share inspiration. And from there, it's a positive, beautiful world waiting for us.

Prarthana: Yeah, and that's such a beautiful note to end this episode on. But before we leave, thank you so much for everything you said, and I know my listeners would be interested in getting in touch with you. So I want to know how they can get in touch with you. Probably an Instagram handle, and maybe a little bit about your programme.

Freeman: Yeah, so I'm very active on Instagram, @freemanfung.global, and feel free to drop me a note as well, especially after listening to this episode. If you are somebody who loves travel, if you are somebody who loves personal transformation, and you love consciousness, world and spirituality, this is the place. Travel to Transform is an integration, it's a movement about all these conscious travellers, including you and I and all the listeners listening, to put this into practice, into integration, in the real world. So my website is traveltotransform.com, and I also have a lot of free resources on there as well. And for your audience, if you want to dive deeper into this work, we have shared a few of the frameworks and also practices as well, if you want to use those to transform your next travel experience. I also have a two-hour masterclass as well on my website. So yeah, drop us a note. I would love to hear what you have learned from this episode as well.

Prarthana: Amazing. That's amazing. So many beautiful resources. Thank you so much, Freeman. Thank you for being here, and thank you for giving us so much value and wisdom, to travel more consciously.

Freeman: Thanks for having me, and happy Travel to Transform.

Prarthana: Well, that was the end of this episode. It was so beautiful. So many golden nuggets. Tell me your shares, your experiences, your transformations listening to this episode. You can DM me. You can DM Freeman. I've linked his Instagram in the description below. But thank you so much for being here, listeners. Thank you for always listening, for always supporting. I really hope to add more and more value to your life. You're listening to Rebel with a Purpose, and I'm Prarthana, signing off.